Talk of Waco

By BearlySure

July 7, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Hogwash. One-way streets currently move traffic efficently and that is what streets are made for. Pedestrians and bikers can can come into downtown and exit downtown just as easily next to a one-way street as a two-way street. In fact, two-way traffic greatly complicates the issue. How many people choose to enter downtown via narrow, congested two-way Austin Avenue rather than Franklin ? How many choose to exit downtown via Austin Avenue rather than Washington ? The heart of downtown is already not going to have any parking (due to all of the new developments) and then congested two-way streets are going to be added to the mix? This will be worse than the failed Austin Avenue mall.

By chris

July 7, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

there are many more efficient ways to calm traffic than converting two way pairs such as reducing/narrowing traffic lanes, adding on street angled parking, raised medians, bulb outs at intersections, chicanes and other chokers like those in front of Insurors of Texas, etc.

We also need to consider improving signage on our pedestrian corridors reminding motorists to yield to pedestrians.

These types of changes will be a defining point to really make a statement about how committed we all are to the pedestrian in downtown and I am firmly in the corner of putting people before cars in an urban environment. The problem is that most studies show a 50-100 percent increase in auto/ped traffic accidents after a one way conversion which to me doesn’t really seem like good odds for the pedestrian which we are trying to support.

Rather we should look to slow traffic on 4th and 5th via signal timing and other traffic calming measures while at the same time install the type of pedestrian amenities that are missing along those corridors which would better link downtown and Baylor.

By Sam

July 7, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

I’m ambivalent on the one-way vs two-way, but something needs to be done to make passage from downtown to Baylor (and vice versa) much more user-friendly and aesthetically pleasing. That 4th/5th Street area right now (from the underpass all the way over to downtown) is not pedestrian friendly, is poorly-lit, and is u-g-l-y.

University Parks may be the future there. Note Baylor’s plans about green space along their side of 4th/5th and making University Parks the main entrance. That would be a very pretty entrance into Baylor campus, and making University Parks the main aesthetic entrance into downtown also seems doable (and quite possibly easier than re-doing 4th and 5th streets).

By BearlySure

July 7, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Downtown is not just a tourist area, it is also a business and office district. Traffic needs to flow smoothly and efficiently into and out of the area. Calming and slowing the traffic should not be the goal. Most all big cities have many one-way streets in their downtown areas because they are the most efficient way of moving traffic. Two-way streets downtown may very well achieve the objective of slowing and calming the traffic because no one will to choose to drive down there to fight the hassle of them.

By B

July 7, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

In my opinion, changing the streets to two-way would be a complete waste of money - money that could be spent on other more useful traffic projects in the Waco area - and wouldn’t change anything about downtown Waco. Currently, the one way streets are extremely efficient at bringing traffic to downtown Waco. I think the money could be better spent on making the roadways, signs, and intersections more aesthetically pleasing. Also, as a city grows, traffic becomes more congested. The one-way roads allow for maximum growth. Converting them to two-way would only cause problems and confusion in the future.

By Dale

July 7, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

It will have the opposite effect of what is intended. It is a waste of time and money to make 4th and 5th Streets 2-way—especially if you only do it for 7 blocks through downtown to Waco Drive. You are going to create severe traffic congestion at Waco Drive with people trying to navigate from a 2-way pair to a one-way pair. You have already messed up Austin Avenue. Leave 4th and 5th Streets alone. If you want to really do some good, fix the sidewalks and lighting from Baylor to Waco Drive. Put in enough walk/don’t walk signs at the intersections. And, fix the don’t walk signs where they operate properly. The don’t walk is supposed to flash for 9 seconds, the pedestrian is supposed to have an additional 12 seconds once it stops flashing to complete their crossing of the intersection before the traffic light changes. Just changing streets to 2-way does not make it pedestrian friendly. If you want to act like a big city, then get your traffic engineer to regulate traffic lights and walk/don’t walk signals like a big city, not like a hick town. Use that money to put Austin Avenue back like it originally was before you all messed it up, and pull all those doggone trees up so we don’t have to walk through bird mess on the sidewalks. The city doesn’t seem to have a sanitation department any more to clean that mess up.

By Drew

July 7, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

I tend to avoid congested arteries in Waco. I avoid Waco Drive like it is the plague because of the narrow and congeste flow between the river and Valley Mills. I would avoid 4th and 5th if the city managed to screw them up like they do so much of what they touch. I like the thought voiced earlier in the thread to make more use of University Park as a major point of entry into downtown. It’s wide easy access and light at Franklin make is more pedestrian friendly than 4th and 5th street.

Someone might do well to remind Mr. Scott Baker that back when he was in short pants Waco’s brilliant “downtown” experts thought that turning Austin Avenue into a pedestrian mall was the way to go to make the downtown more vibrant and pedestrian friendly… and that turned out so well.

By Scott Baker

July 7, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

It’s amazing how many “experts” come out of the woodwork here when you actually try to get something done.

For the record, if you read what I said, you’d note that I don’t think that converting 4th and 5th to two-way is the only option. I just think it’s the best one. Chris enumerates a number of viable alternatives. The point is that leaving things as they are is not an option. Regardless of what is done, we need to take action to make 4th and 5th streets more pedestrian friendly. We need to effect a psychological change in people Downtown. Motorists need to understand that they are on pedestrians’ turf not the other way around.

Of course Franklin and Washington will continue to be the main vehicular thoroughfares. And of course University Parks will continue to be developed. This isn’t the only thing going on; It’s just one part of the big picture.

As for the short pants comment, save it. I wasn’t even alive when the pedestrian mall mess happened actually. The last thing Downtown needs is more armchair quarterbacks.

By William

July 7, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Turning a one way street into a two way street is only going to make it worse and cause road rage. If you really want to make downtown more walkable, actually put stores and resturants that people actually go to instead of pawn shops and stores where people sell clothes from their attics. They should really consider getting a trolly line or something built to get people around downtown.

Building lofts isn’t going to really help downtown. Waco should really concentrate on East Waco, because that area has so much potential to become a great part of the city and build a couple of urban-planned developements.

By Dale

July 7, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baker, you just lost an ally on this one. I lived through all these messes. So what makes anyone an expert on anything? I have been listening to the so-called “experts” for 4 decades. It’s all been the same thing. They get paid to tell the city what they want to hear. Then nothing happens. False promises, false hopes, and a ton of money poured into an area for nothing or very little in return. If you all are trying to turn this into a pedestrian only area again, then you have already lost the war before you fought the battle. It has failed once, and it will fail again. Without properly handling vehicular traffic, there will be no pedestrians. Even Chicago couldn’t pack enough people living in downtown to wipeout vehicles. Us armchair quarterbacks told the city it wouldn’t work the first time, and they didn’t listen. What we wound up with is a complete pedestrian area with no pedestrians. I hope the pedestrians living downtown are able to get enough taxis to the next 4th of July fireworks while the rest of the motorized city drives out to see them at the lake because Indian Spring park will be dead with no vehicles to get people there.

“Motorists need to understand that they are on pedestrians’ turf not the other way around.” You just shot yourself in the foot with that statement.

By Scott Baker

July 7, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

No, Dale, I didn’t. Please hear me out on this. Nothing frustrates me more than someone telling me that what I’m working on is “the same thing they’ve been doing for 40 or 50 or 60 years.” I haven’t even been alive for 30 years! I haven’t been working on anything for 40 years. Why are people so quick to write off good efforts? If I had to identify one thing that bugs me about Waco it’s that Wacoans don’t seem to appreciate the talent they have living here. Then those people leave and Waco complains about people leaving for better situations. There are some very talented experts working on this issue that haven’t been doing anything in Waco for “40 years.” Take Chris McGowan, Michael Wray, Tom Chase, Jim Vaughan, and so many others. Why won’t you give us a chance to succeed? Why decide from the get-go that this is no different from before? At some point, that attitude becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We’ve got to believe in ourselves!

Also, you’re not reading the article or paying attention to the issue. No one is trying to make Downtown hostile to vehicles. We’re just trying to put people first. It’s a mindset. No one wants to make it so that you can’t drive a car into Downtown. We just want Downtown Waco to function like so many other successful Downtowns in America where you drive there, park, and walk where you need to go. That’s Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, Little Rock, Chattanooga, Columbus, Atlanta, etc., etc., etc. Nobody wants Downtown to be “pedestrian only.” We just want it to be “pedestrians first.”

Please don’t tell me that I’m full of false promises, false hope, and no return. It’s simply not true. I’ve delivered on everything I set out to do. I do not intend this to be any different. Give the people working on these problems a chance! Support them with constructive input! Be a part of the solution. And please recognize that this is different from anytime in the past. Don’t saddle the present with the failures of the past. That’s just not fair.